...like, srsly? Whats this? It looks like a scam artist is leading the project now /o\ handhelds, mobile phones, plain lies. WTF
...like, srsly? Whats this? It looks like a scam artist is leading the project now /o\ handhelds, mobile phones, plain lies. WTF
Well, Groepaz, we went through a lot already, more than you can imagine! And we will surely also survive being called "scam artists" (at least it includes the word artist, not too shabby). But don't you think "plain lies" is a bit over the top? What lies are you referring to exactly? And did you read the headline saying "DESIGN STUDIES"? And one more headnut to go: Why do you think that most people (many of them not being knee-deep in the "C64 scene") like the new web page a lot (an appropriate answer could be "it does not display well on my c64") ??
Also, if you like, send me your phone number privately, and I will give you a call from the lab when I get back from Vanuatu, and we can discuss the "impossibility" of a M65 phone from there.
I have admit to having something of the same sort of reaction... I think people were really stoked for the in the standard desktop version, so when it starts to broaden beyond that... a cell phone? You've got to expect more then a few WTF reactions. I think the expectation was that the Mega65 would be more focused on the C65 reproduce aspect, rather then appearing to be another generic FPGA box.
Honestly, I can't see the usefulness of a CD drive at this point in time, never mind a novelty phone.
those "design studies" are just hilarious. a mini cd in 2018? pahaha. and sure, there will be a mega65 phone. AND a handheld! yep :)
whom are you trying to fool there, and why, thats the only question that arises.
PS: the biggest german forum related to the subject is full of WTF reactions to that website change. and those ppl are not knee deep in c64 scene, they are exactly your retro target audience.
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"*Yawn*", Yup, exactly the attitude that'll tank this. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Here's to hoping Icomp doesn't decide to "phone in" the Amiga reloaded.
ok then; first of all let me remind you that we do this for fun only in our non-existant time and with our own money. we are basically aware of the fact that we are trying to do the impossible. main focus lies on the desktop machine (with floppy!!!!!!11eins1elf) but other things are starting to live in the lab besides that. I understand that a lot of clearance is needed on this part but can you please wait for the announcement(s)? So someone could please step forward and apply as a press manager to clean up these things in the future. I have done the website to start a modern nicer look for it and fed it with content that was lying around on my drive. Things can be exchanged but I dont like you people crapping on Jose's renderings. He does a great job building the CAD versions of the stuff while producing a lot of cool render images. And thank you all for giving me s**t for the work I put into that webpage in my non-existant time; I am open for exchanging all the text I put there if better stuff comes up. Otherwise please let me use my time productively so this adventure will become a success. Thank you!
“can you please wait for the announcement(s)?”
well, it was you who apparently did put all those things online - basically announcing a phone, a handheld, and other wild things. on top the text on the page doesnt really indicate that this is all speculation and doesnt really exist - the contrary, it makes it sound eg if that phone thing is already there. all this makes it look scammy, similar to other projects before that were just that. "we" have been burned too often, "we" will step back from this kind of things. (dont make the mistake to just look at your facebook retro crowd - those ppl are easy to impress and often have close to no idea wtf its all about, and whats realistic and whats not)
bottom line: i think you'd do yourself a real favour if you'd just not show those thing that "could be someday in the future maybe perhaps" but instead focus on showing what you really have. or if you must, put them on a seperate page on the website and clearly point out what it really is. as it is now, not only my reaction was "oh, looks like they found an investor, and now they have to show stupid things to make him happy"
For me, personally, I think it's fine for the team to have high aspirations. Sure, high aspirations will naturally invite skepticism and doubt amongst some onlookers, but so be it.
From my measure of the people involved, I feel there's enough talent, skill and know-how in their respective fields to make these things happen, as long as they preserve their enthusiasm for these aspirations.
To quote Bloody Mary from South Pacific: "If you never have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true"
I am looking forward to the machine as much as anyone else here does - and while adding renders of phones,handhelds, etc. alongside the actual photos of the mega65 is not exactly my cup of tea either, i find the criticism and the words written by some guests here unnecessarily harsh.
Please do not ruin this with excessive criticism. Too much negativity can put this project in jeopardy.
yeah when the project fails, it was because someone in an internet forum ruined it :)
Truth be told, I think we have underestimated the potential negative impact posting mockups without an accompanying full disclosure or the reasons behind them. We'll try to get better at this and we consider this a lesson learned, so thank you for pointing that out, implicitly.
Although I understand your frustration on 'getting burned' on retro projects, one would have to ask whether the ratio between the level of getting burned versus one's personal investment in such project warrants any entitlement to harsh comments or outright toxic behaviour. If your investment is limited to keeping tabs on a forum, website and yet another forum, I personally don't think you are particularly entitled and I'd urge you to take responsibility and stop spreading hate talk that have a negative impact on both volunteers working hard on the product as well as fellow forum members.
Ask yourself this instead: "what can *I* do to help?"
That said, I can tell you that I know for a fact that none of the devices depicted on the revised website are part of a scam. Although these are clearly mockups of the real things, the MEGA65 Phone is in fact under development and driven by an affiliated team as to make sure the core MEGA65 team's resources and progress don't get affected.
What the teams have accomplished so far is nothing short of stellar and I have no reason to believe the MEGA65 won't see the light of day at some point. There is however an insane amount of work involved and all volunteers have very busy day jobs. Ironically, folks that have the right skills to do this sort of thing are exactly the people that are in demand in the various industries in which they participate with coupled obligations. This is not to be taken lightly and the MEGA65 release will in fact be a remarkable feat once it happens.
uhoh. hate talk? i'm just not on the hype train. ask myself what i can do? aha. no, i dont have to lay an egg to judge an omelette. i am also involved in a couple projects already (have you already used the testbench i spent many months developing?) and i have heard all those excuses all too often.
none of that however changes the fact that the website as it is now shows things that seem unlikely and remind more of a scammy kickstarter than anything else. but it seems thats exactly how you want it to be?
you might want to step back a bit and realize that i am not being negative towards the project here, or even trying to talk it down. pointing out obvious flaws isnt toxic behaviour either - quite the contrary is true.
Wow, so man y of you seem to have such tunnel vision...is it lost on some of you that this being a fully open source hardware project means others can go ahead and make Mega65 into whatever form-factor they feel like, for whatever project they deem appropriate and it has no impact at all on the faithful reproduction of the C65?
Think Raspberry Pi/Arduini/hobby board. You can massage thins thing any which way into whatever form factor you can make work. The classic C65 form factor is merely the baseline of what is possible.
The only reason the PCB layout is as big as it is, is to match the original C65 form factor otherwise this thing could get condensed down to RPi size.
At any rate, it sure seems short-signed and reactionary to be making calls of "Scam artists" or predicting the project will tank merely because the nature of its design makes it able to be many different things to different people at the same time, or that its designers dared to be open about the possibilities for hobbyists.
At any rate, since when do hype trains bother to have keyboard prototypes manufactured? Why do they bother to have prototypes of the whole system manufactured? (no need to answer as I know h8rs gonna h8 no matter how rational the counter-arguments.)
Mega65 team, keep up the good work! I love that you all have the broad vision that you do, as clearly you are looking beyond merely making something for the retro-collector-nerd crowd and see Mega65 as something that can also have much more, modern relevance.
Count me in on the WTF reaction to the new web.
The Page itself is not too suspicious. It Just appears to present more of a concept than work in progress.
The real suspicion arises from comparison of the current version to the previous one. Specific information was mostly replaced by general marketing phrases.
If I was not following the blog, I would fear the worst.
Ralph Egas and Kinshi. When you rebrand criticism as hate, what do you call the actual hate?
Well, I think the thing is this: When the project started out, it seemed like such a nice idea. An FPGA-based recreation of a mythical and sexy Commodore computer that never saw the light of the day. With a few minor changes to the specs, to finish what Commodore started and to make things a little bit more usable.
During recent times, there was a lot of stuff added into the computer which - to me at least - seemed a bit over the top (Matrix screensaver, cough cough). It seemed a bit like the team wasn't so sure after all what the MEGA65 should become. Should it be the recreation as planned or should it be more like an Amiga or a complete fantasy product? Though I can understand that some things might evolve and change during development, I had the feeling that the goal wasn't really clear anymore, and sometimes I wasn't so sure anymore if this is really a computer that I would want to buy (whereas I was 100% sure when the project was first announced).
Now to top it all off, this new website came out of nowhere, with all those fancy phone ideas and handhelds and whatnot, and I think it should be understandable that at this point, it's possible that some people really start becoming sceptical about the whole idea and whether there is still a clear goal for the team. And those who thought the MEGA65 is mainly about recreating the C65 might have the feeling that this initial vision has been replaced by something completely else.
It might not be as dramatic in the end, but it wasn't communicated well (the site was suddenly there), and in my opinion, it would be nice to see the team sticking a little bit more to the original idea, to avoid confusion.
My personal opinion, that gpz's original post can be misunderstood just too easily (surely it's something that it's hard to blame him that it's just his fault). Ie "plain lies" etc part but missing to realize the "looks like" statement, ie it looks like the web page of some clearly scam stuffs, and not this project/plans is intended to be "insulted" as whole. And it's clearly more an opinion on the look of the new site, how it is felt for him, how he thinks it looks like. But to be honest, at first, I also interpreted gpz's post in a way, that it's a "direct insult" against the project, that _this_ project is "full of lies" (which is something he didn't write actually, but easy to [mis-]understand that way). And honestly, I then just checked the site, and indeed, it's a bit strange to have all of these new stuffs without enough/too much further information, announcement, whatever, just this new info/concept/etc raising from "nowhere", _at least seemingly_. But the "new" plans are really fascinating, in my opinion, anyway, I'm excited about this.
I acknowledge that we don't always communicate as much as we would like, which is in large part due to our limited time as volunteers. However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying to give a clear picture of what we are doing, and where we are headed. To help with this, I have written the following blog post this evening. Hopefully it helps. If not, let me know what questions or concerns you still have, and we will see what we can do to answer them:
thanks for clearing things up, especially the student part which was a bit out of my focus. nice post!
You're welcome, and glad you found the post helpful.
Well, this thread was fun somehow. Anyways, I am open to exchanging any content on the page. I just put the marketing words into the template and used unpublished graphics from my hdd underestimating the reactions this may cause. Frustrating everbody who waits for a desktop machine by showing trails that are obviously out of reach admittedly was not clever. We can put up more substantial stuff, but someone needs me to tell what. We also need photos of the final machine so we concentrate on producing those. I also feel the .com domain should have something like a marketing page, in the end we need as many (pre-)orders as possible to make the machine happen at an affordable price! The .org could be more for the community, does anyone want to take this task?
In a nutshell, the main page, the forum and the blog posts are fun for us and sometimes go horribly wrong. We are sure to get many helping hands to do those right once we deliver great machines. So only this counts for us right now :)
gpz: have you already used the testbench i spent many months developing?"
What is it and where is it please?
start here: http://vice-emu.pokefinder.org/index.php/Testbench - you need a couple simple features in your implementation, and then this could be used to at least test the C64 portion quite extensively (and automatically). c65 specific things could be added, if someone is willing to come up with the test programs.
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